Hollie Benton 0:04
You're listening to Doulos, a podcast at the Ephesus School Network. Doulos offers a scriptural daily bread for God's household and explores servant leadership as an Orthodox Christian. I'm Hollie Benton, your host and executive director for the Orthodox Christian Leadership Initiative. And with me is our co host Fr. Timothy Lowe. He is a retired priest and former rector of the Tantur Ecumenical Institute in Jerusalem. Hello, Fr. Timothy.

Fr. Timothy Lowe 0:30
Hollie, it's nice to see you again.

Hollie Benton 0:32
You as well. So, Fr. Timothy, the last few episodes have been focused on Israe'sl search for a king. We've had many examples of leadership failures with King Saul then David and Solomon. There were even more failures after King Solomon, so much so that the law of the Lord was buried and entirely forgotten, functionally extinct, so that Israel really is now finally operating like any other nation, a law unto themselves with a human king as its head. But the one king who stands out, long after Solomon, declared as righteous in the eyes of the Lord, was King Josiah. It's interesting that modern Christians know very little about King Josiah, he doesn't get a lot of airtime in the biblical story like Saul and David and Solomon. I'm wondering why you think that might be Fr. Timothy?

Fr. Timothy Lowe 1:25
Well, of course, we're gonna speculate a little bit here. But I like your question. We are at the end, end of the long story, when I say that we're talking Genesis 1, the human story now as it closes in and focuses on one people, one reality, their little ticky, tacky, little world. The ironic effect is that of Josiah, and we'll read soon, who is the singularly good king. And of course, he's eliminated as quickly as he appears. And that in itself is the witness of the end. Now what is interesting about his name, and it really sets the tone, there's a little bit of disagreement amongst scholars because of the complex root, but it means "the despair of God." Once again, God is despairing over his creation. We had that of course, in Genesis, in the story of Noah, and you have it, of course, it repeats itself, the theme of the despair of God saying, I can't stand these people anymore. And he says, Moses, come on, I'll make a new people out of you. And we'll just start all over again. So this constant resetting, restarting, and this is why people have to read the whole text, you can skim over Genesis and Exodus, but to see we're coming to the end of an epic, Samuel and Kings. And that is the narrative that started in Genesis 1. So people have to keep that in context, even if they don't know that story, but they have to at least put that in a larger context, like you would the ending of any great drama, The Lord of the Rings, okay, if you will, would be the most common and most fantastic. And so, let us look at Josiah and what is happening here and let us be shocked and stunned. The end of Lent is coming up, so okay, we need to be shocked and stunned again.

Hollie Benton 3:16
You suggested reading from Second Kings chapter 22. "Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned 31 years in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Jedi'dah, the daughter of Adai'ah of Bozkath. And he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, and walked in all the way of David his father. And he did not turn aside to the right or to the left." And then jumping a few verses later. "And Hilki'ah the high priest said to Shaphan the secretary, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilki'ah gave the book to Shaphan and he read it. Then Shapan the secretary came to the king and reported to the king, your servants have emptied out the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hands of the workmen who had the oversight of the house of the Lord. Then Shapan the secretary told the king, Hilki'ah the priest has given me a book and Shapan read it before the king. And when the king heard the words of the book of the law, he rent his clothes, and the king commanded Hilki'ah the priest, and Ahi'kam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Micai'ah and Shaphann the secretary and Asai'iah the king's servant saying, go inquire of the Lord for me and for the people and for all Judah concerning the words of this book that has been found, for great is the wrath of the Lord that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not obeyed the words of this book to do according to all that is written concerning us." So Fr. Timothy, I don't know if you realize we have a Doulos podcast episode in our archives with Fr. Dustin Lyon that addresses the few verses that were skipped in chapter 22 today, with respect to King Josiah and his magnificent building campaign, the name of the podcast is called, "Getting on the same page." And it's astounding that in terms of leadership and organizational health, King Josiah is really a top notch leader. Everyone is entrusted and empowered and accountable to the work of building the house of the Lord. The project is going marvelously from top to bottom, everyone is involved and doing their part. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our churches operated like this? But then the book of the law is discovered, and it's enough to halt this magnificent building campaign. You know, we too hear of modern stories of building projects that are halted when ancient artifacts are discovered, but nothing that would make us rend our clothes in repentance and beg for God's mercy. And I suppose this might be heaping coals upon our heads, but it is the same book of the law that we can access today. Most of us have it on our own shelves. I would say the difference is we don't have the same kind of penitent response exemplified by King Josiah. Clearly, this is why he is so revered as the righteous king, and not I, not you, not anyone else. Perhaps this is the reason we don't know his story so well. We would rather try to relate to those who might be more on our level, so to speak, recalling the sins and failures of King Saul, King David and Solomon, so that our own shortcomings just don't look so bad.

Fr. Timothy Lowe 6:39
Well, Hollie, they're cleaning, rebuilding, refurbishing, beautifying their temple. That's a word you often hear in any capital campaign programs for churches, I just received one, for example. Okay, we want to beautify and make it more beautiful. And they come upon this last book of the law, Deuteronomy. It's Moses's last words, if you will, and warnings, blessings and curses and the conditions upon which they are being brought from Egypt, and given the land that was not theirs, which now, people like to call the promised land. So it should shock us when we read. And you said it in the introduction, as if the book of the law did no longer exist, no one knew about it. And it says it's the heart and soul. Let me read something from Moses's mouth in Deuteronomy at the very end before God takes him away and removes him. He warns the children of Israel, "Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. They are not just idle words for you, they are your life. By them, you will live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. That is the introduction to everything that has happened that we've been podcasting about over the last few weeks, they are the source of life. And if you observe them, you will live long in the land. So the shocking is that not only did they not have any awareness that this book of the law existed, but it says that they haven't even celebrated the Passover. And this relates to the Moses story. In other words, they have their big, beautiful building. And you've made mentioned we have our big, beautiful buildings. So Orthodox churches have this beauty, let's not deny it. But my point is, the soul for which the building is constructed for is the commandments of God, the law of God, the book of Deuteronomy for the Israelites here, and they have no conscious awareness of, which means, what are they doing? What are their priests doing? They know nothing. They know nothing. And one of the ironies of the story is, Josiah, after he hears this and says, Okay, an expletive would be in order here, but we will not say the expletive just, Oh my, oh my, because we are in trouble. We have not done what we have been commanded, our parents, our grandparents, all over, no one has done and now there is going to be judgment and he senses judgment. We talked about the shortness of Josiah, yes, he gets the short straw. He leads. He leads the people, he leads them into a repentance that is never heard or seen again. And it describes it in detail. It describes the removal of all the altars and all the idols and the various other gods that are being worshipped hither and thither by everyone. In other words, their idolatry that came with Solomon. And then it just continued in a way that even makes David and Saul look rosy. This complete and utter abandonment of that which formed them and made them who they are. To be as Christians okay, we're finishing the period of Great Lent, about ready to start holding what is supposed to form us and make us who we are. And I don't want to say identity because that's an overused word. St. Paul says, "O foolish Galatians, how much longer do I have to labor until Christ is formed in you?" Okay, so we're supposed to be laboring and reflecting and repenting and acknowledging, confessing our sins, where is the focus and so on? You and I have been talking a long time about the commandments of God, the obedience of God. And we have only Josiah, who represents the end of the story, which will be the end of kings and the despair. Second Kings 25 is the end of it, and that has the judgment has come. So my point is, even as Josiah leads them in repentance, what is his reward? If you know the story of Hezekiah, you know that Hezekiah also repents, and God stays his hand, and decides not to destroy Jerusalem and Judah, yet, Israel, the 10 tribes, they're already gone. They've already had their chance, and they're gone, never to be heard of again, by the way, functionally in the Scripture. So Josiah's only, if you will, consolation, Josiah's only consolation is that he will not witness the bitter end himself. Now, the irony, of course, Hollie, is that his end is bitter. He's a young man, right, in his late 30s. And he dies in battle. The Kings never die in battle. He dies in battle, that's it, so he doesn't witness what is coming. But he's told. So I want to talk more about the end here. But let's go ahead and look at the last couple of verses I've asked you to read.

Hollie Benton 11:54
Yes, so in the next chapter 23. "Before him, there was no king like him who turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses, nor did any like him arise after him. Still, the Lord did not turn from the fierceness of his great wrath, by which his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations with which Manas'seh had provoked him. And the Lord said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel. And I will cast off the city which I have chosen to Jerusalem, and the house of which I said, my name shall be there."

Fr. Timothy Lowe 12:34
We've talked about the despair of God. We've talked about the depressing reality of the human story as written in the Scripture. And so I want our heroes to understand it, and this they can personalize it in their own life, as their own story, but as being contained within the larger biblical story, that there comes a time when repentance is no longer on the table. This is a message I want to hear at the end of Lent, there comes a time when repentance is no longer an option. Why? Because it's the time of judgment. We can talk about the great and last day of the Lord and standing before him and so on so forth, okay, nut we have to imagine it. We need to sober up. There is a time when judgment is now at hand. Think of Isaiah chapter 6, Isaiah's call, right? Read the first 10 verses of Isaiah chapter six, he makes this point that he is no longer allowing repentance, he is dumbing their ears, so they can't hear and see, making them blind. Because now it is time for judgment. And that's the god awful task that Isaiah is asked to do. So I want people just to sober up here. When it comes to this idea, that of choseness, "I will cast off this city which I have chosen, Jerusalem, and the house of which I said, my name shall be there." There is no guarantee. We can say this all the time until we're blue in the face, but do we believe it? Okay? We are chosen until we are not. We are not God's special people, given some sort of grace that no one else gets. It simply is related to reading the book of Deuteronomy, reading the conditions on what God engages us as His people, whether we're Israelites, or whether we're Jews, now, Muslims, Christians, or whatever, everybody has their book and the terms in which. And so I think it's time as we approach the Holy Week, to not imagine, not to beat our breasts but to see ourselves as the failing ones, the ones who are causing despair to God. It's not a very hopeful message. It's not. And I want us to feel the despair, not our own despair, because our despair is a lack of faith ultimately, about ourselves, our failures, and we begin to have a pity party and, no, the despair of God over his creation. Now as we move, and we'll have Holy Week next week, and we will do another podcast on the crucifixion, and we'll end the story of the kings. And we'll end the human story and start with a new story, which is Christ is risen, but we're not there yet. And don't imagine. So I want us to place ourselves as the unfaithful ones, the ones who have completely forgotten that even God's commandments exist, and we're doing our own thing, beating our own drum, building our own palaces, whatever it is, people can finish their own plotline of surviving, materialistic and gorging themselves. To assume that we have begun to repent is also a little bit troublesome. We always need to place ourselves in the ones who are standing over and against God as a precaution, and as a safety. We're not the prodigal son. We're the son who's there. We're not publican, we're the Pharisee. Because we always, our church even wants us to identify with the good guys.

Hollie Benton 16:14
We want to be the hero of our own stories, don't we?

Exactly.

If I want to get marketing, right, I've got to make sure that people feel like they're the heroes of their own stories.

Fr. Timothy Lowe 16:23
Yes, you do. Otherwise it doesn't sell. The Bible is not selling anything other than God's commandments, or else, judgment. So as we reflect a little bit on Josiah, and the irony that he is the best king ever. And he's the one that singularly gets slaughtered in battle, as a grace so he doesn't see the exile. So I want to leave at least one little, little teeny tiny bit of hope. And that is in Second Kings, chapter 25. To see the end of the story, because we didn't give the end of the story really. Okay, the next king, you know, the son of Josiah comes and whatnot, it's a disaster, and then another king, and then the judgment comes. The Babylonians, the instrument of God, conquered Jerusalem, and Judah refuses to accept its punishment. So they rebel again. And that's when Jerusalem gets destroyed and the temple gets ripped apart. And the king finally is taken into exile, where he's in prison, Jehoiachin is his name. And in his imprisonment after he's released, this is the hope, this is the hope for the future, he is now under the care of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He's given a stipend. He eats at the Kings table every day. But he's not a king of anything. But he's under the hospitality of the one who God brought to conquer and to bring judgment, but he's still there. So that's the image of hope, he's still there is no longer in prison, but he's in exile. And the point was, they had to accept the punishment, and see it not as the Battle of Kings over larger, smaller empires, but simply as God bringing them back to their knees. Why? Because they have to start again. And that ends the story of Kings because there are no other kings after that, okay, there is no other. It's just exile and the biblical story will continue. Matthew chapter one, that's where it continues.

Hollie Benton 18:27
You were talking about the despair of God. And I was wondering too, "I will remove Judah also out of my sight. As I have removed Israel, I will cast off the city which I have chosen Jerusalem, and the house of which I said, my name shall be there." So the despair is so great that he's canceling even himself, if we imagine that his existence is connected at all, to Jerusalem and Judah.

Fr. Timothy Lowe 18:56
See, when the chosen ones become a blasphemy, there is no choice. There is no choice. There's no options, if you will, Jerusalem has to be eliminated, because it's become an idol. Once it becomes an idol, it can no longer be functional. It's not about the building. It's not about the city. It's not about the people, it's about the commandments. And until we see that we're going to continue to beautify churches and think that God dwells there and we have him nicely captured and contained till he has to break out and be free again. Read Ezekiel to understand what we mean by that, for he has to be free, because he's been imprisoned by his people. And that doesn't work. It all has to go. And it's gone.

Hollie Benton 19:42
Thank you, Fr. Timothy. Time to sober up as we enter into Holy Week, even imagining that there comes a time where repentance is no longer an option, that judgment is at hand. Maybe have a little bit of hope that you described, even if we have to sit at another's table, and go into exile and be taken care of by our enemy.

Fr. Timothy Lowe 20:05
Exactly. Isn't that a profound point? The one who conquered us is now the one who's keeping us alive and sustaining us for hopefully, a time in the future.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai